Sandboxie Support

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-04-22T06:46:37-04:00

DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR wrote:Yeah, I understand, other real functionality bugs, etc. need more priority than optimizing. No problem, and I'm optimistic like I said after these last changes. I appreciate that!

Thanks. I have to say in the end I didn't get to review your notes prior to releasing version .06. I addressed a bunch of problem and wanted to get that out for review. But I am still planning to look into the points you raised, very soon.

Statistics: Posted by tzuk — Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:46 am

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-04-19T12:16:15-04:00

bo.elam wrote:
shadek wrote:Am I the only one experiencing slight latency when browsing? I.e. clicking a link and a second later the page loads?
I have an issue on each of my computers (XP/W7) while using V4 but none with my browsers. Actually, I feel both of my browsers (IE9/Firefox) feel great running under V4.

Bo

I uninstalled the AV and it's working fine now. Bitdefender AV Free did not like Sandboxie. Someone had to go, and Bitdefender went out the door.

Statistics: Posted by shadek — Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:16 pm

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-04-18T12:18:30-04:00

shadek wrote:Am I the only one experiencing slight latency when browsing? I.e. clicking a link and a second later the page loads?

I have an issue on each of my computers (XP/W7) while using V4 but none with my browsers. Actually, I feel both of my browsers (IE9/Firefox) feel great running under V4.

Bo

Statistics: Posted by bo.elam — Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:18 pm

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-04-17T15:13:04-04:00

Am I the only one experiencing slight latency when browsing? I.e. clicking a link and a second later the page loads?

Statistics: Posted by shadek — Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:13 pm

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-04-16T12:15:29-04:00

Yeah, I understand, other real functionality bugs, etc. need more priority than optimizing. No problem, and I'm optimistic like I said after these last changes. I appreciate that!

Running for 4 days now, and it looks like the SbieSvc processes are only using maybe 25% of the CPU time as .04! (Of course usage pattern, etc. isn't exactly the same, but major reduction there). GuiProxy's memory still looks to be increasing each day (but not msimn.exe so much this time so far)...

Statistics: Posted by DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR — Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:15 pm

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-04-14T14:24:18-04:00

Thanks about this writeup, and in the other topic. I'm going to look into a couple of other problems before I go back to these issues, so I'm going to come back later with a more thorough response to your response. I definitely appreciate your help with these issues! Thanks!

Statistics: Posted by tzuk — Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:24 pm

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-04-12T10:18:35-04:00

tzuk wrote:I introduced some optimizations into the GUI code so hopefully version 4.01.05 improves performance a bit. As for registry performance I'm not sure I have anything conclusive yet. I'd like to hear how version 4.01.05 behaves for you.

Thanks, now I have hope! Regarding registry speed, you must have done something? Performance on regedit search (Keys/Values/Data) is nearly TWICE as fast as .04! Can we get some more of that? Nearly doubling again would be better than 3.76.

Also, I'm still wondering about possible kernel memory leaks I asked about awhile back in 3.76 (unless just Windows weirdness, but you said you'd look into it after the 4 beta), plus others now in 4.01. I have Task Manager screenshots before and after closing sandboxed programs. It was active for 20 days, and you can see kernel memory drop 200 MB (same as 3.x). Also running that whole time, OE, and its memory usage increased continuously (maybe slower at the end) and well as SBIE's GuiProxy process (same PIDs as earlier Process Explorer screenshot), and that did NOT drop at all after closing stuff... I'll watch .05 now. It seems to be using less CPU time (but still more than 3.x).

Before: Processes/Performance
After: Processes/Performance

Now the interface/GUI slowness... I immediately noticed populating and scrolling the ListView controls (Explorer, OE messages, etc.) was very fast again (no need to measure). So I guess that's like 3.76. Still noticed general slowness, however (launching, opening new windows, Open/Save dialogs, etc.; more in a sec). I see you fixed the Firefox Save As click-Cancel-twice-to-actually-cancel glitch.

Then I went to check PerformanceTest's 2D Windows Interface benchmark, and was going to say, "I see what you did there." Just optimized for that benchmark, but other stuff was still slow? (Did you ever run it?) Haha, no I see that's not true now, and I guess what fixed the ListView stuff really fixed PerformanceTest: I'm seeing like 20% better Windows Interface scores sandboxed now, compared to UNsandboxed! Not sure how that's happening (maybe FindWindow() is faster sandboxed without "other" windows? *shrug*)

That's all I thought there'd be to report, until I wanted to verify that Recent Documents still won't work at all... I hadn't tried with OpenWin=* on the main system before to check Recent Docs, but I did that and launched IE 6 to do a test "Save As," and guess what? It was WAY faster, felt nearly like 3.76! I waited till later to get some AppTimer numbers from the laptop, but... Basically no difference there; few hundredths, but I'd expect that if a whole chunk of code is bypassed with * So then before my other post yesterday, back to this system to check AppTimer...

(This is all about launching IE 6.) Main system, usual SBIE settings: 1.22s (I originally said over a second, though I hadn't timed anything in forever here), which I think is better than .04 going by laptop comparisons. When I just added OpenWin=*, that dropped to 0.5s!

I only have a few OpenWin, including 2 templates (AutoSizer, EMET), so would try removing them. One of the first was for Recent Documents (since it doesn't work anyway):

OpenWinClass=,$:explorer.exe

Bingo! Somewhat. That takes launch time down to 0.7s. Besides launching, interface stuff is much better then, but I still feel/see some slowness with new windows, Open/Save... But with Open=*, that stuff is nearly as fast as 3.76, but not quite. I can no longer see slow redrawing (like OE toolbar), but still feel a delay with windows opening (even though it's VERY fast compared to 4.01 with Open=$:explorer).

The slight remaining extra slowness vs 3.76 is about proportional to the launch difference. For reference, IE with 3.76 takes 0.4s (0.37 with Open=* [again, expected with code bypass]; NO other OpenWin settings have an effect), and < 0.2s unsandboxed.

Back to 4.01: I wanted to see if i could get more details for you, so I tried other stuff 12 hours ago. Does the number of OpenWin entries matter? No, tried adding 20 different Dummy windows. Program prefix/group/number of group programs matter? Nope.

Then the last thing I tried was really interesting. Use * with a prefix (Open=iexplore.exe,*): takes 2.7s! Instead of way faster like global *, it's way slower. So there's that discrepancy, plus the $:explorer.exe slowdown that doesn't exist in 3.76.

On the clean, default laptop, the differences are much smaller, but certainly distinctly measurable with AppTimer. Not sure why the HUGE differences on this system...

Hope these specifics help. Sorry for the long post, just wanted to provide detailed feedback! It almost feels like we could get to 3.76's performance now, or perhaps better. Nice progress in 1 update!

Statistics: Posted by DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR — Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:18 am

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-04-10T23:45:33-04:00

tzuk wrote:I introduced some optimizations into the GUI code so hopefully version 4.01.05 improves performance a bit.

The slowness that I felt in earlier betas running Outlook Express and Windows Explorer sandboxed is gone (XP).

Bo

Statistics: Posted by bo.elam — Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:45 pm

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-04-10T14:10:35-04:00

confirmed. 4.01.05 is faster than previous 4.01.x i had also some slowness issues too.tnx tzuk

Statistics: Posted by stvs — Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:10 pm

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-04-10T10:15:54-04:00

I introduced some optimizations into the GUI code so hopefully version 4.01.05 improves performance a bit. As for registry performance I'm not sure I have anything conclusive yet. I'd like to hear how version 4.01.05 behaves for you.

Statistics: Posted by tzuk — Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:15 am

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-03-24T05:23:47-04:00

Thanks. I see you have a few third party DLLS in your resource log but let's assume at this point they aren't the cause of this problem.
I will see what I can do to version 4 to speed things up a bit. Let's revisit this subject after I release the next beta version (hopefully with some performance improvements).

Statistics: Posted by tzuk — Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:23 am

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-03-22T07:45:51-04:00

I just reverted back to the earliest laptop image before anything was installed other than wired network driver (no permissions altered yet, just some "cleanup" of the Windows install I do, nothing harmful ). Installed PerformanceTest and SBIE 4.01.04. Ran 2D - Windows Interface benchmark unsandboxed, which was SLOW without the video driver installed: barely 10% of what it was with driver. Running it sandboxed actually managed to score 92% of unsandboxed (since that was SO slow to begin with), but yes, distinctly slower score still.

Installed the Intel video driver (skipped INF chipset software stuff),and reran PerformanceTest: ~60% this time instead of the ~58% I got the other day.

So, before attempting a test reinstall, I figured I'd try on the Win 7 system! 2.4 GHz Celeron G530 w/ HD 2000 graphics. As I said, basically untouched 64-bit SP1 install, other than Media Center and supporting stuff. I already had 3.76 (w/ EP) sitting there, so I installed PerformanceTest 8.0 into a sandbox with default settings (as all have been for these tests, BTW). I ran 2D benchmarks in 3.76 to see the baseline (presumably same as unsandboxed) for Windows Interface. I found it interesting that it was a lot lower than even the weak graphics laptop (I guess the Vista/7 desktop/window system (Aero?) is just like that...).

Anyway, after installing 4.01.04, exactly the same result as XP laptop! No more than 60% of 3.76's score. Wow.

Then I decided to try the "this is a test" regedit search there in the entire registry. Again, very similar to XP (and yours):

Unsandboxed: 20s
SBIE 3.76: 3m00s
SBIE 4.01: 7m20s

The Resource Access Monitor from main XP system from running Explorer in default settings sandbox: www.realplain.com/sbie/ram_12-03-22.txt

Notes: 4t Tray Minimizer and AutoSizer had already been disabled (first thing I checked). (Tray Minimizer does slow down "Windows Interface" in all cases I see, though I never noticed.) Weren't on laptop anyway, nor is PDF X-Change (xcshinfo.dll). And the DEP DLL in I:\ is just my test AppInit DLL which unloads itself (FALSE from DllMain), and also not present on laptop...

Statistics: Posted by DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR — Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:45 am

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-03-22T06:48:42-04:00

I don't know for sure that it is something in XP or in Windows that is making the difference.
It was an idea, which may ultimately not be relevant at all.

I tried scanning the registry but just HKEY_LOCAL_SYSTEM (I picked a search string that is found at the top of the HKEY_USERS tree).
Unsandboxed regedit: ~10 seconds
Sandboxed v4.01 regedit: ~70 seconds
Sandboxed v3.76 regedit: ~25 seconds

I'll look into it to see if I can improve anything there.

I see no external DLLs in SbieSvc, that was a long shot anyway.
Have you looked at a Resource Access Monitor log to see if any DLLs load inside the sandbox?

Statistics: Posted by tzuk — Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:48 am

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-03-21T16:40:28-04:00

Hmm, I hope so too, I'm glad I noticed this as soon as I could, and wish I had sooner. That laptop isn't a system I've really used, and I was just testing SBIE functionality on it 2 months ago after initial release, so I didn't really have a baseline feel...

You only try XP in a VM? Could it only happen on a "real" system? Haven't measured anything -- what about just a simple regedit search like I did? Are you saying registry access is as fast as 3.76? Yes, it seems like something that fundamental should be the same, but I obviously have way slower.

Since I can't REinstall everything for a "fully usable real system" with programs and all, I mostly just have the bare laptop install to go by, with program launch times, regedit, and this 2D benchmark. Though that seems to be plenty to compare with 3.76.

About that other topic with the Windows 7/IE 9 user mentioning slowdown: I have another system (Sandy Bridge) with 64-bit Win 7 which I've hardly looked at as far as Sandboxie, so I could try these simple tests there too... Setup from an untouched SP1 ISO, and other than setting up drivers and Media Center stuff, I haven't touched it, since I'm not so familiar with 7, of course.

What sort of XP install are YOU using? I can try another install later overnight/tomorrow on laptop... Don't want to just use my SP2 disc... So just integrate SP3 only, and don't do any updates? Does SBIE need any update since SP3...?

I would be absolutely shocked if there was any difference. I haven't really done any sort of "screwy" tweaks as part of my installs (or after) like some people, so I don't really see anything that would make a difference. I make Home install as Pro which basically only changes the "XP Home" in a few places and would allow me to disable Simple File Sharing if I wanted... I integrate the Intel SATA AHCI driver during install; could drop that and install with IDE (again, can't imagine a problem here ). Just some info mostly in my WINNT.SIF. Shortly after install, I tweak folder/file permissions precisely with SetACL to tighten stuff running with SRP dropped rights (outside of SBIE). I have an image before the permission changes, which I can try to install SBIE from there before full reinstall to see if that's any different. That would probably be most drastic changes, but again, I can't see a problem...

Just saw your edit. Here's the DLLs in Process Explorer: www.realplain.com/sbie/guiproxy_dlls.png

Statistics: Posted by DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR — Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:40 pm

[.05] Major slowness with 4.01

2013-03-21T15:43:40-04:00

DR_LaRRY_PEpPeR, I am not doubting that you're seeing this drastic hit on performance. But it has to be something unique because I don't experience anything like that. My feeling is that version 4.01 performance is very comparable to version 3.76. I haven't measured anything because I didn't feel that I need to.

I tried running XP in a VM with an execution cap of 10% and everything was slow, but same kind of slow for programs in and out of the sandbox, so even under such a strained condition I wasn't able to see a difference that I could analyze.

You said you have a custom installation of Windows (you mentioned slipstreamed updates). Maybe you've also tweaked Windows in some other way that triggers this behavior on your system. I certainly hope that we end up figuring this out but at this point I don't really have any idea what might be causing this.

Can you look at the DLLs loaded into the SbieSvc GuiProxy process to see if there are any unexpected third party DLLs in there?

Statistics: Posted by tzuk — Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:43 pm