Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

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Rasheed187
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Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by Rasheed187 » Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:28 pm

Hi,

Whenever I run these browsers in the same sandbox, FF will crash sooner or later. If FF runs in its own sandbox, there is no problem. This problem was not present in SBIE v4, so there's definitely something wrong with SBIE v5.

How to reproduce it : Install Opera 12 and Firefox 42 outside the sandbox, and force Opera 12 to run sandboxed. Then open FF as a child process via the "open with Firefox" context-menu entry. After some browsing, FF will become unresponsive, and you will have to close it. I'm using Windows 8.1, and like I said, I don't believe it's a conflict with another tool, because SBIE v4 works just fine. I also had this problem with older FF versions, so it's not a browser specific problem.

http://www.downloadcrew.com/article/22266-opera
http://www.downloadcrew.com/article/24333-firefox

Thanks,

Rasheed

Rasheed187
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Re: Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by Rasheed187 » Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:38 pm

BTW, I would appreciate it if this problem can be fixed as quickly as possible, because I had to downgrade to SBIE v4 because of this.

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Re: Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by Craig@Invincea » Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:20 pm

Whenever I run these browsers in the same sandbox, FF will crash sooner or later. If FF runs in its own sandbox, there is no problem. This problem was not present in SBIE v4, so there's definitely something wrong with SBIE v5.


What about in separate sb? any issues? Usually, it is best to run a browser in it's own SB. However, I've routinely run Chrome and FF at the same time, nothing thus far. Freq deleting of the SB also helps, running browsers side by side like this is only adding to that possible conflict.
This problem was not present in SBIE v4, so there's definitely something wrong with SBIE v5
Well, 4x isn't supported directly any longer. We've moved ahead with substantial code changes, tweaks & Windows fixes to work with Windows (and the Oct 2015 update for which v4 hasn't been patched for) thus comparing 4 to anything in 5 is night and day.

We would certainly need more info...

basics... Antivirus (baseline questions.)
Any FF and or Opera add ons and extensions?
May have you do a ProcMon ....After you give v5.06 and Beta v5.07.2 a run to see if the problem repeats. This would be the first we've heard of it when running this sort of arrangement.

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Re: Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by Craig@Invincea » Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:26 pm

Rasheed187 wrote:BTW, I would appreciate it if this problem can be fixed as quickly as possible, because I had to downgrade to SBIE v4 because of this.
Since this is the 1st report we've heard of this type in this scenario, it depends on other info i've requested in the thread. If the problem persists and can be repeated in testing, it will be prioritized accordingly of course. If it's a simple as running each browser in a separate SB, then that's do-able work around in the meantime until we get more info from testing/users/etc.

Definitely a unique circumstance. So, what if you happen to run into anything else, post it.

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Re: Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by bo.elam » Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:30 pm

Craig@Invincea wrote: What about in separate sb?
Thats what I would do. Rasheed, isolation/sandboxing works better when we separate programs from each other. By separating Opera from Firefox, not only you ll eliminate the (apparent) conflict you are experiencing but you ll achieve better isolation, you ll get more out of Sandboxie.

Bo

Rasheed187
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Re: Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by Rasheed187 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:43 am

bo.elam wrote:
Craig@Invincea wrote: What about in separate sb?
Thats what I would do. Rasheed, isolation/sandboxing works better when we separate programs from each other. By separating Opera from Firefox, not only you ll eliminate the (apparent) conflict you are experiencing but you ll achieve better isolation, you ll get more out of Sandboxie.
Correct but currently, I have no choice but to use this combo. I use Opera 12 for my favorite sites, and FF for sites that aren't displayed correctly in Opera. The plan is to dump both Opera 12 (dead browser) and FF (not good enough) for Vivaldi in the coming months, but Vivaldi still needs to be improved.

Rasheed187
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Re: Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by Rasheed187 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:10 am

Craig@Invincea wrote:
This problem was not present in SBIE v4, so there's definitely something wrong with SBIE v5
Well, 4x isn't supported directly any longer. We've moved ahead with substantial code changes, tweaks & Windows fixes to work with Windows (and the Oct 2015 update for which v4 hasn't been patched for) thus comparing 4 to anything in 5 is night and day.
I have had this problem with all v5 versions, and overall v5 is better than v4, but v4 didn't give me this problem.
Last edited by Rasheed187 on Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rasheed187
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Re: Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by Rasheed187 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:11 am

Craig@Invincea wrote:
We would certainly need more info...

basics... Antivirus (baseline questions.)
Any FF and or Opera add ons and extensions?
I don't believe other tools are responsible, but the tools that I use are Sandboxie Pro, EXE Radar Pro and SpyShelter Firewall. See screenshots for the FF and Opera extensions.
FFEX.png
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OPEX.png
OPEX.png (173.57 KiB) Viewed 991 times

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Re: Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by Craig@Invincea » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:45 am

Normally, we would have you disable any and all extensions and run your browser just testing the Core functions. Usually, that's how we test. We do test some add-ons, Very few. As Addons and extensions are almost 100% the cause of any browser issue.

We'd also have you look up each browser in a separate, clean sb. Again, I wouldn't recommend running 2 different browsers in the same sb setting. Running FF in a sb alone causes the sb to fill with all sorts of clutter.

But it appears that the workaround would be (as you have concluded) to have FF / Opera operate in their own respective sb. This is normally how it should be done for performance and less headaches.

Rasheed187
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Re: Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by Rasheed187 » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:31 pm

Craig@Invincea wrote:Normally, we would have you disable any and all extensions and run your browser just testing the Core functions. Usually, that's how we test. We do test some add-ons, Very few. As Addons and extensions are almost 100% the cause of any browser issue.

But it appears that the workaround would be (as you have concluded) to have FF / Opera operate in their own respective sb. This is normally how it should be done for performance and less headaches.
With all due respect, I don't think it has got anything to do with other security tools or extensions. Like I said, with SBIE v4 this doesn't happen, so there must be some underlying problem in SBIE v5. Is there perhaps something wrong with the communication to SandboxieDcomLaunch and SandboxieRpcSs? I have also already explained why I use this Opera + FF combo. If it's too hard to troubleshoot or reproduce, I will simply downgrade to v4.

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Re: Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by Craig@Invincea » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:59 pm

have also already explained why I use this Opera + FF combo. If it's too hard to troubleshoot or reproduce
However, given you're the only one that has experienced this issue with 2 browsers running in the same sb, it's not something we can dedicate days too....during a holiday week on top of that.

If more and more people are reporting issues mirroring your specific problem, then of course, it would be prioritized as such. However, you're the only one with this unique situation.

You've admitted that the problem goes away when run separately. Which is what we'd preach. Which is why SBIE has the easy ability to create....sandboxes. It's a common sense approach to avoid the headache you're seeing.

With that, I have been testing your sceanrio all morning in a VM...Both Opera/FF in the same and separate SB. Running them together is not advisable. However, I haven't noticed any issues. Other that the sb quickly filling up with crud.

could there be something with rcpss? That was fixed in .7.

As for addons/extensions being an issue. I simply ask you to look in the forum, it's usually 100% of the time issues are related to that AND/OR A/V.(which I don't believe is your issue).

This is why we do not test new builds with browser extensions/add ons. Do we support certain ones? Sure. We try. A very VERY few.

If you have more of an idea of what you're experiencing. Then feel free to submit logs / dump files, etc.

Rasheed187
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Re: Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by Rasheed187 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:25 pm

Craig@Invincea wrote: With that, I have been testing your sceanrio all morning in a VM...Both Opera/FF in the same and separate SB. Running them together is not advisable. However, I haven't noticed any issues. Other that the sb quickly filling up with crud.
Thanks for testing, I appreciate it. I was hoping that you would be able to reproduce it, but I already feared that it was some kind of freak bug. When FF freezes, I checked for anything strange happening with Process Monitor, but I found nothing (file system, registry, process and thread activity).

However, currently I'm testing if the freezing goes away when FF is NOT started as a child process of Opera, perhaps the problems lies there. If not, then I will downgrade to v4, and when I switch to Vivaldi I will upgrade to v5 again.

Rasheed187
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Re: Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by Rasheed187 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:55 am

Rasheed187 wrote: However, currently I'm testing if the freezing goes away when FF is NOT started as a child process of Opera, perhaps the problems lies there. If not, then I will downgrade to v4, and when I switch to Vivaldi I will upgrade to v5 again.
Bad news, that didn't do the trick either, and Opera 12 started to crash even when FF was already terminated. So somewhere deep in v5's code, there must be some kind of bug. I have now downgraded to v4 and everything is all fine again.

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Re: Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by bo.elam » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:34 pm

Hey Rasheed, if I was you, I would run Opera and Firefox in their own separate sandboxes and use Sandboxies latest version. Obviously something creates a conflict for you when you run both browsers in the same sandbox. To avoid this issue and for security, separate the browsers. You are into security, and isolating programs from each other in their own sandbox is the recommended way of using SBIE. Look where it says Create more sandboxes.

Bo
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Re: Problem with Opera 12 + Firefox 42

Post by Craig@Invincea » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:43 pm

@Rasheed,
Even without the licensed version, you can create new sandboxed. The limitation is the same program (example, FF) can only be run once in any particular SB. In the licensed version, you can run FF in multiple sb at once.

But yes, like I said and Bo reiterated, separate sandboxes for program isolation and to keep them from mixing the soup up is best.

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