Sandboxie cannot open (a sandboxed) Firefox anymore

[Craig@Invincea]

I've now tested enabling all the Add ons for Chrome = Everything works fine.
Firefox, the Norton Security Add-ons are not compatible w/ FF 41 and above.

[bo.elam]

Of course this could be a solution, but it is a quite radical one. At the moment I still hope that there could exist some "softer" alternative.

Hi Pete, I think the softer solution would be to disable Nortons addons. Over time and over and over, we see that usually is not the AV itself that conflicts with SBIE but the addons. And the more addons from the AV that you use, the lesser the chance the AV will work with SBIE.

If that doesn't work and doing that might not work for everyone that has this issue, I would look for something else. From Sandboxies point of view, the simpler the AV, the better.

I quote this post from someone at Wilders, you probably read it but is for other users that might not have read it. Sometimes we have to choose between programs and this is a good example why if I was using Norton and had to choose between using Norton or SBIE, I would choose SBIE. I think this is a great story and I see it being told many times over the years with slight changes.

About three months ago, I received a "stressful" phone call from my wife at home.
She said that somehow her computer was taken over by some "nasty infection"/malware that completely paralyzed Windows 7.
It happened without ANY "objections" from my BitDefender Internet Security 2015, AntiMalware Premium, Zemana Antilogger, etc...
There was a phone number on the screen to call. My wife called that number and some person on the other end asked for $140 in order to fix that "problem", otherwise everything could be destroyed/wiped out/inaccessible.
My answer was this:
"If you clicked on the "pizza" ( my wife calls Sandboxie's icon "pizza") icon, then DON'T WORRY. Just shut down the computer and wait for me."
She did not believe me. I told her, "just wait for me and DON'T PAY ANY MONEY."
I drove home and shut down physically the computer. Upon restarting, I immediately deleted contents of Sandbox, and
THERE WERE NO SIGNS OF ANY MALWARE after that.
Once again, it happened without ANY "objections" from my BitDefender Internet Security 2015, AntiMalware Premium, Zemana Antilogger, etc...
That's why I believe in Sandboxie.

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/ ... st-2534693

Bo

[Craig@Invincea]

Exactly @Bo.

And there are many, many other A/V options out there...Free and paid. That do work w/ SBIE. But honestly, I'd put my faith in SBIE. And use A/V to see what's swimming in your SB, then delete it.

[richard329]

Norton Security Deluxe (Trial)
Updated program files as of 10/20

Windows 7/64 (current updates)
SBIE v5.05.3 Beta

FF (Current) (Any Norton Add on disabled.)
Chrome (Current) (Norton add on disabled.)

Browsers are currently working without issue. Standard install, no exclusions. Only "denied" add/on's for browsers when prompted.

Craig, thats the same I stated before (see above page 3):

SB works on OS Win 7/64, BUT NOT on XP and Win 8.1. !!!

[Craig@Invincea]

Norton Security Deluxe (Trial)
Updated program files as of 10/20

Windows 7/64 (current updates)
SBIE v5.05.3 Beta

FF (Current) (Any Norton Add on disabled.)
Chrome (Current) (Norton add on disabled.)

Browsers are currently working without issue. Standard install, no exclusions. Only "denied" add/on's for browsers when prompted.

Craig, thats the same I stated before (see above page 3):

SB works on OS Win 7/64, BUT NOT on XP and Win 8.1. !!!

I will correct you, SBIE works on all Windows OS versions (32/64) (XP, VISTA, 7, 8, 8.1 and 10.) It's Norton / Symantec that may not work with SBIE/and all Windows OS. The simple fix is to remove/disable Norton. There comes a point when resources and effort have to be examined on what can be "fixed." But, as a product, SBIE is not the issue. It's apparent incompatible application, which we identified, as the issue.

This may mirror Kaspersky...and such, our recommendation, as well as Ronen when he created SBIE, is to find another A/V program. We have multiple listed. Or, use the Windows Default (MSE, Defender) w/ SBIE and you're just as secure, as SBIE is what you're counting on, not an A/V Product.

[Peter 123]

Thanks to Craig@Invincea for his tests, his explanations and his patience.

I am not happy about the situation but I understand this consideration:

A typical troubleshooting step is to have users disable A/V. If that doesn't work, removal. (i.e. like Kaspersky.) It's far faster for a user to diable/remove A/V than it is for me to download a trial, config a VM and hope it matches your configuration.

The problem is: What should be done when the test had shown that indeed the AV causes the troubles (as it obviously happened now with Norton)?
a) Try to find out the concrete reasons for the troubles (in the hope to be able to stay with the same AV)?
b) Forget this AV and change to another one?
c) Forget this AV and stay from now on without any AV?

Craig recommends b) and (if I interpret his words corrcetly) to a certain extent also c).
To my mind - for various reasons* - these should be considered only the ultimate measures when a) has definitely failed.

*) Only one example: In the meantime I tested Avast: Ok, with Avast - instead of Norton - Firefox opens again in Sandboxie but all works significantly slower than with Norton: the opening of the browser (about 10-15 seconds, whereas with Norton it were 2 or 3 seconds as long as it had worked without troubles), the opening of the bookmarks list has a delay, the opening of the websites too etc. Result: One problem may be resolved but with a new AV program you possibly get another one.

So staying with Norton would at least for the time being my absolute preference. Therefore I would also like to ask Bo about this:

I think the softer solution would be to disable Nortons addons. Over time and over and over, we see that usually is not the AV itself that conflicts with SBIE but the addons. And the more addons from the AV that you use, the lesser the chance the AV will work with SBIE.

Yes, of course, I would disable them immediately if I could find something (more):
In the Add-ons list of Firefox I have (and had always) only one add-on concerning Norton: the "Norton Toolbar". But it is disabled anyway all the time and automatically as not compatible with the respective version of Firefox.
If there is an other place (than the list with add-ons) where something from Norton could be "hidden" any advice would be appreciated.

[bo.elam]

Yes, of course, I would disable them immediately if I could find something (more):
In the Add-ons list of Firefox I have (and had always) only one add-on concerning Norton: the "Norton Toolbar". But it is disabled anyway all the time and automatically as not compatible with the respective version of Firefox.
If there is an other place (than the list with add-ons) where something from Norton could be "hidden" any advice would be appreciated.

Pete, I cant try Norton as I dont have a VM, like you, I have Shadow defender and the one time a while back that I wanted to try Norton to see how it worked with SBIE, Norton required a reboot. So, I couldnt test. What addons your Norton version has, I dont know. But what I would do is test disabling anything that Norton does other than the plain antivirus itself. Perhaps there are features that can be disabled via Norton UI.

Bo

[Peter 123]

O.k. thanks Bo. What I have already tried was a complete uninstalling of Norton (only without reboot as I tried it with Shadow Defender) and the result was indeed the same as in MDrew's test: Firefox opened again in the sandbox.

But what I would do is test disabling anything that Norton does other than the plain antivirus itself. Perhaps there are features that can be disabled via Norton UI.

I will have to look about this though I fear that only the complete removal of Norton helps.

[bo.elam]

I will have to look about this though I fear that only the complete removal of Norton helps.

It could be that that's your only solution but you can try the softer solution first and if that doesn't work, then you ll know that Norton has to go.

Bo

[richard329]

Craig says "The simple fix is to remove/disable Norton".

That looks like:
A man comes to a tire-dealer:
"I would like to buy these tires for my car"
"Sorry, but this tire will not fit on your car"
"So, what can I do ?"
"Buy a new car."

The fact is that SBIE must fix the compatibility problem with Norton and not vice versa.


The proposal to remove Norton or other A/V programs and use only SBIE is outrageous and irresponsible !!!
Who monitors my USB drive? SBIE safe? This is a joke!

Viruses that are trapped in the sandbox environment, can read data on the PC, but not write data.
When you exit the contaminated program in the sandbox, it's gone. In Meanwhile, the virus can however read data.
You should be aware of the use and be very careful. Malware which is started in Sandboxie, read access to all data
also outside of Sandboxie. A "real" virtualization is only possible with VMware!


Please, Craig, tell us users not such a nonsense "SBIE is safe". It is definitely not.

I use SBIE only in conjunction with an A/V program. Only then it makes sense. As long SBIE is not working,
I have to look for an alternative.

My recommendation to other affected users: Leave your A/V unchanged, delete SBIE and switch to an alternate
virtual box, in which there are no problems with FF, XP, Win 8.1 (e.g. Oracle VM VirtualBox or VMWare Player).

[Peter 123]

Richard329 is quite harsh in his words and I do not agree with all he says. But I think that Sandboxie's staff makes it indeed by far too easy for itself when saying in essence the following:

Disable/uninstall your AV (o.k., some of us already did it) ---> Without this AV things run better? ---> So drop this AV and either search for another one or use SBIE completely without an AV.

As I already mentioned, to my mind this should be the ultimate solution - when every effort to find the reason for the issue and every effort to fix it had failed. And I do not have the impression that such an approach is practised by the staff of Sandboxie. (O.k. there were some tests from your side, you analyzed our logfiles etc. and we appreciate all these activities. No doubt. But now ... ?)

And I agree with richard329 that it should primarily be the concern of Sandboxie - and not of Norton - to take such efforts. Because let's assume we would describe exactly the same problem in a Norton support forum. They would probably say there: "As Firefox with fully activated Norton continues to start smoothly outside of Sandboxie [and this is at least my experience], the problem is obviously caused by Sandboxie. It's their turn to take care about it." And wouldn't this be a correct statement??

From this point of view I think that richard329 is right when he says:

The fact is that SBIE must fix the compatibility problem with Norton and not vice versa.

I did not research the history concerning the incompatibility of Kaspersky with Sandboxie. But anyway it would not be a satisfying situation when one after the other AV programs gets incompatible with SBIE: yesterday Kaspersky, today Norton (at least for some users) ... Which will be the next one?

Concerning the search for an alternative AV program:
After Avast I tried now also AVG and (at least in my tests) the opening of the browser and mainly surfing became terribly slow again within Sandboxie. I say it with the reservation that (because of testing in both cases with Shadow Defender) I did not reboot the computer as the Norton Removal Tool would require. So there is the possibility that the delays would be gone after the reboot. But these are exactly the experiments I do not want to make: definitely uninstall Norton, install another AV and then possibly see that an old problem was replaced by new ones.

[ukbobboy]

Dear Forum Members

I must say, first of all, that I agree with Peter 123 overall and in particular his conclusions because I too dislike making changes to my stable and protected computer system unless absolutely necessary.

But unfortunately, I now believe that I am being backed into a corner and being forced to choose between going after my lost facility, which is a sandboxed and anti-virus protected Firefox, by making experimental changes or staying safe by changing my computer usage. Both choices are unsatisfactory because I hate experimenting, I'm just too conservative for that, and changing my computer habits negates the reason for me having my system in the first place.

However, I do believe, like Peter and Richard, that Norton will not fix the problem they caused (and I do believe wholeheartedly that they did cause this problem by releasing something) because they have done this before, i.e. deleted four of my non-Norton utilities and tried to disable communication between my PC and NAS. And now they have crippled Sandboxie's control over Firefox.

At this stage of the game, I am hoping that solution can be found but I fear that this may be beyond Sandboxie Support's remit and capabilities, which now leaves us with appealing to Norton to undo or modify what they did last Monday night (19th October).

UK Bob

[Curt@invincea]

Have you contacted Symantec and demanded they fix their incompatibilities with Sandboxie?

[Curt@invincea]

And I agree with richard329 that it should primarily be the concern of Sandboxie - and not of Norton - to take such efforts. Because let's assume we would describe exactly the same problem in a Norton support forum. They would probably say there: "As Firefox with fully activated Norton continues to start smoothly outside of Sandboxie [and this is at least my experience], the problem is obviously caused by Sandboxie. It's their turn to take care about it." And wouldn't this be a correct statement??

As Firefox with fully activated Sandboxie continues to start smoothly without Norton, the problem is obviously caused by Norton. It's their turn to take care about it.

Especially since Sandboxie worked fine with Norton until their recent update. And since Norton works fine in our testing, the problem is most likely in your configuration.

[APMichael]

...They would probably say there: "As Firefox with fully activated Norton continues to start smoothly outside of Sandboxie [and this is at least my experience], the problem is obviously caused by Sandboxie. It's their turn to take care about it." And wouldn't this be a correct statement??

From this point of view I think that richard329 is right when he says:

The fact is that SBIE must fix the compatibility problem with Norton and not vice versa.

Sorry, but I really don't understand why everybody talk SBIE down. Why should SBIE fix all the compatibility issues that were caused only by updates or new versions of AV programs? The AV programs broke the compatibility, not SBIE! The producers of the AV programs could easily take care that other security programs (like SBIE) works with their products, but most of them are not interested in helping a competitor, because they want to sell their own big Security Suites. Please blame the AV programs, not SBIE! Just my two cents...

Edit: What some people don't see: if an AV program blocks essential processes of SBIE, SBIE can't fix anything! They can contact the producer of the AV program only - nothing more.