5.12 (W7x64): IE crashes after every start [SOLVED]

[Craig@Invincea]

I have always enabled the AWM template but it doesn't help with 5.12.

Off topic:
AWM causes massive performance degradations if some 32-bit applications are running on my system (intel xeon with 4 real + 4 HT cores). I have to manage the using of CPU cores with rules in AWM for this applications and set rules, that this applications can only use the cores 0-3 (4-7 are disabled). This is done for Live Mail, Pale Moon (32-bit), the 32-bit-IE (C:\Program Files (x86)\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe) and other applications and also for the Windows Explorer. I had found this issue some month before and contact with the actual tools support. Therefore I'm using a custom version of AWM 8.8.3. which has registry keys for setting the core affinity for itself and Windows Explorer. But this will not eliminate the performance issues with AWM completely. There are no performance degradations, if AWM is not running or if I do change the Bios setting for using only 2 real and 2 HT cores for the whole system. The Actual Tools support can not solve this issue with AWM.

Things like AVM don't help SBIE. They usually hurt...

[technoid]

There was no problem with AWM and Sandboxie until version 5.11.10 (included). What can we do to solve this issue with sandboxie 5.12? There is an template for AWM in Sandboxie. It's enabled but it seems to be, that it doesn't work anymore correctly which causes the problem with Internet Explorer and SB 5.12.

I'm sure that this can be fixed. Can you investigate this, please? I will make and send a procmon log.

EDIT: Link to the zipped procmon log sent per PM to Craig and Curt.

[Craig@Invincea]

We've spent far too much time on AWM.

Curt and I spent the better part of yesterday testing it from 5.10 to our our most current internal beta.
Works in 5.10 through 5.11.11. It does not in 5.12.

5.12 is basically 5.11.11, so that makes zero sense.

It doesn't work well directly on our host machines w/o SBIE or a VM. Curt noticed that.

It's not only confined to 64 bit either.

So, at this time, we're are not going to devote further resources into it. If something comes up that may be related, etc. Then it might resolve. If it was a major browser we support, or something impacted the general use of SBIE, yes..but this is more of a workflow utility that becomes very intrusive.

Programs like this in the past have a VERY poor history with SBIE.

Your options are to stay with something before 5.12 [no guarantee something else might break as get into now older SBIE versions]
......or remove AWM.

[technoid]

OK, thank you!

I need AWM to minimize some applications automatically to tray, stay windows on top, resize windows automatically or set cpu priority automatically.

I would use an exception in AWM for Internet Explorer in Sandboxie, but Sandboxie uses only the 32-bit Version of IE and there is an performance degradation through AWM with it, if all 8 cpu cores are available for the 32-bit IE. So I have to use an rule in AWM which limits it to the first 4 cores. An alternative would be to use an exception in AWM and an additional application to set cpu affinities. :-/

It is possible to download sandboxie 5.11.11 or 5.11.10 again? I don't have any of the betas anymore.

Edit: I did try some exceptions in AWM but there isn't anyone who works.

[Syrinx]

We've spent far too much time on AWM.

Curt and I spent the better part of yesterday testing it from 5.10 to our our most current internal beta.
Works in 5.10 through 5.11.11. It does not in 5.12.

5.12 is basically 5.11.11, so that makes zero sense.

It doesn't work well directly on our host machines w/o SBIE or a VM. Curt noticed that.

It's not only confined to 64 bit either.

So, at this time, we're are not going to devote further resources into it. If something comes up that may be related, etc. Then it might resolve. If it was a major browser we support, or something impacted the general use of SBIE, yes..but this is more of a workflow utility that becomes very intrusive.

Programs like this in the past have a VERY poor history with SBIE.

Your options are to stay with something before 5.12 [no guarantee something else might break as get into now older SBIE versions]
......or remove AWM.

Interesting. I think I've been using AMM/AWM longer than I have sandboxie. Unlike technoid however, for me it's usually just to control separate backgrounds on the monitors and an extended taskbar these days. I've never had issues with AWM before (with other software) aside from the standard bugs and occasional broken features. For the sake of testing however I uninstalled AWM from my system and replace it with a trial of DisplayFusion and updated SBIE to 5.12 again. So far the issues I noticed in my short stint with 5.12 before haven't popped up again.

Some down sides of switching to DisplayFusion:
It's a .NET program, I'm not fond of these and avoid them when possible.
As a .NET program it is much larger in memory than all the processes of AWM combined.
I've noticed the DisplayFusion.exe tends to use more cpu in the background than all the processes of AWM combined. Every couple seconds it's using 1-6% of the cpu and only drops to <0.01 for short periods.
I don't have a license for it.

Some positive aspects of DisplayFusion:
Has an option to disable application hooks! [love it]
It's working well with Sandboxie 5.12
It lets me do everything I still used AWM for.
It has ASLR!

Normally I'd be a tad more irate about the suggestion of dropping AWM or sticking to an older version of SBIE but seeing how I am hoping to move to Win10 around the redstone release [they finally fixed most of the issues I had] anyhow and Win10 lets me handle the things I need natively - it will be a moot point for me soon. So grr anyway but whatever, this setup will be an acceptable workaround till then. =(

Thanks for the testing though, I wonder if it could be something that just needs changed/fixed inside AWM that wasn't exposed before now?

[technoid]

Display Fusion is not an alternative for me. The most functions which I use with AWM are missing in DF or have to programmed with scripts.

[Craig@Invincea]

Curt may have a fix for AWM. However, the program writes to memory all over the place, so there is no guarantee.......

It'll be in the next beta tomorrow hopefully once I run through some tests in the morning.

[technoid]

Thank you very much!

[technoid]

Solved with new beta 5.13.1. http://forums.sandboxie.com/phpBB3/view ... 75#p121863

[bjm]

Curt may have a fix for AWM. However, the program writes to memory all over the place, so there is no guarantee.......

Um, > writes to memory all over the place < sounds bad...?

[Syrinx]

Curt may have a fix for AWM. However, the program writes to memory all over the place, so there is no guarantee.......

Um, > writes to memory all over the place < sounds bad...?

Yeah but unless I'm misunderstanding the comment, it is to be expected. AWM and the other 'Actual Tools" programs (along with similar software) are designed to inject into everything and hook quit a bit allowing them to 'alter' the windows experience or change/control things in ways you normally can't.

This was one of the reasons I was overjoyed to see an option preventing application (and another for shell) hooks/dll injection with DisplayFusion. Sadly the memory and cpu usage (lets not forget it's a .NET program which I dislike in general) left a fowl taste in my mouth but I was willing to live with it till next month when I hope to finally update to Win10 with the redstone1 [I can't help but think of MineCraft with that name and my kid agrees:-/] release. Thankfully the latest SBIE beta fixes whatever issue there was and now I'm in happy land with my normal Win 7 setup again. Obviously 'not' injecting/hooking every application would limit the softwares capabilities but I rarely ever use most of the (plethora of) available settings these days and certainly none that would require the app hooks which seem to have been involved here so I wish AWM had an option to disable those like DisplayFusion does. =(

That being said, I'd love to hear more on the matter of "writes to memory all over the place" and any negative security implications that anyone from Invincea thinks this might entail or how it was involved in the issues with 5.12 now that it's been solved in 5.13.1!

[bjm]

Yeah, fast read sounds like fix for Actual Tools squeezes Sandboxie shoes.
Kinda concerned this "fix", any "fix" might squeeze Sandboxie.

[redwolfe_98]

We've spent far too much time on AWM.
Works in 5.10 through 5.11.11. It does not in 5.12.
5.12 is basically 5.11.11, so that makes zero sense.

in the changelog for build 5.12, it says "sandboxed applications are no longer allowed to change the system power configuration".. i didn't see that mentioned for the 5.11.x beta-versions..

maybe that is the difference? and maybe that was why changing sytem power configuration wasn't blocked, before, because doing so was known to cause problems?

[Craig@Invincea]

We've spent far too much time on AWM.
Works in 5.10 through 5.11.11. It does not in 5.12.
5.12 is basically 5.11.11, so that makes zero sense.

in the changelog for build 5.12, it says "sandboxed applications are no longer allowed to change the system power configuration".. i didn't see that mentioned for the 5.11.x beta-versions..

maybe that is the difference? and maybe that was why changing sytem power configuration wasn't blocked, before, because doing so was known to cause problems?

It's been in Beta builds for a long time. Since April. http://beta.sandboxie.com/beta511.html

As for the fix for the AWM too, that's a beta fix, if it causes more problems that it's worth, it'll be removed. That's why it's only in the beta for now.

[Craig@Invincea]

i didn't see that mentioned for the 5.11.x beta-versions.

Obviously, you're not reading the change logs. And no, this has nothing to do with it. Is this you conclusion from debugging? Code review? etc? If so, we'd like your input, since we've missed something... something as for AWM that is fixed in Beta 5.13.1 which caused an enormous amount of work for Curt.

For a free update, keep that in mind.