Bringing back the Altiris SVS question..

[Guest]

While I was researching I came across few old posts that came close giving me the answers I'm looking for but disappointingly, none that I found were final on a answer and/or were just abandoned To further complicate things I found a site that just contradicts everything I've read so far, (http://wiki.altiris.com/index.php/Sandbox) . In that little comparison, it states the Altiris SVS and Sandboxies are equal(or "similar") in the security department. Is this true?

Anyways, I want to get my hands on a program that would have the "security" of Sandboxie but the "flexibility" of Altiris SVS. I've been using sandboxie for about 2 months now and it's been great for everything but running games , which is part of the main reason why I'm making this thread. I've tried using Sandboxie's Trace technique to solve my game problems but it only worked for some and not for others. Like say, for Lineage II, it would just not play along with GameGuard(Anti-Cheat?).

A feature I'm loving about Sandboxie, that I would miss dearly if I do switch to Altiris SVS which appear to lack it, is the ability to run a program(e.g Firefox) virtualized while I move and edited any of my unvirtualized files at the same time, not having to worry about losing my unvirtualized work when I delete the sandboxed contents. Whereas, when you deactivate and remove a layer in Altiris, all changes made to the system post activation goes with it. All this is my knowledge from just reading about it so I would like some confirmation on this.

If Altiris SVS is really as secure as that site says, then I have found my program. If not, I've got some work to do

[sql]

Alright, I had some free time so I decided to test ride Altiris SVS and I was surprised that it was very similar to Sandboxie, well not really but it had the feature I mentioned earlier so that's a plus. I also tried running Lineage II but failed. I got another error relating to GameGuard. I guess there's no hope for games with build-in Anti-cheat systems.

Now there's still one more thing that's bothering me, which is more secure?

[DelenaJava]

What exactly is your question?

If it is: "What to use?", the answer is simple: both. Although both programs isolate execution results from your basic computer, their filosofy is completely different.

With Altiris, one has layers that can be switched on and off, or reverted to their pristine state. This is very flexible, though requires a lot of preparation(s).
Sandboxie, on the other hand, allows you to run [almost] any program isolated with the click of a mouse, and to recover results at will during or after excecution.

In my personal humble opinion, Sandboxie is better balanced between security and allowing a program limited access to resources. That is, Altiris blocks more to achieve the same degree of security. Therefore, Sandboxie stands a better chance to run an exotic program than Altiris does. But i might be wrong in this.

[street011]

the only real difference i've found is the intergration with the real system once a layer is active.

the problem with anti-cheat programms usualy are the drivers they use... it seems you can't have decent security while allowing drivers to be installed.
I guess it's impossible to install them isolated (otherwise it would have been done i suppose)

[tzuk]

You can try to set your some specific folder as a Full Access path, and then install the game there. This means some of the installation will happen outside the sandbox, but only in the folder you designate, and if it works, it could be a decent compromise.

[Guest]

What exactly is your question?

If it is: "What to use?", the answer is simple: both. Although both programs isolate execution results from your basic computer, their filosofy is completely different.

With Altiris, one has layers that can be switched on and off, or reverted to their pristine state. This is very flexible, though requires a lot of preparation(s).
Sandboxie, on the other hand, allows you to run [almost] any program isolated with the click of a mouse, and to recover results at will during or after excecution.

In my personal humble opinion, Sandboxie is better balanced between security and allowing a program limited access to resources. That is, Altiris blocks more to achieve the same degree of security. Therefore, Sandboxie stands a better chance to run an exotic program than Altiris does. But i might be wrong in this.

My question still is which one is more secure? I would not be asking this question if I never came across this site (http://wiki.altiris.com/index.php/Sandbox). I've always believed Sandboxie was the more secure and so this is quite annoying!

the only real difference i've found is the intergration with the real system once a layer is active.

the problem with anti-cheat programms usualy are the drivers they use... it seems you can't have decent security while allowing drivers to be installed.
I guess it's impossible to install them isolated (otherwise it would have been done i suppose)

True I guess..but I am determined to find a way! I'm actually going to try out what tzuk said down there when I get the chance.

You can try to set your some specific folder as a Full Access path, and then install the game there. This means some of the installation will happen outside the sandbox, but only in the folder you designate, and if it works, it could be a decent compromise.

This sounds promising..but first, I have to figure out how to do this exactly I'm assuming I would first make a folder, then openfilepath=[folderpath], next would run the installer sandboxed and select the folder Would I run the installer sandboxed or just install it normally but into the custom folder? If I do the latter, wouldn't registry and other modifications apply to my real system? And defeating the whole purpose...

[Guest]

You can try to set your some specific folder as a Full Access path, and then install the game there. This means some of the installation will happen outside the sandbox, but only in the folder you designate, and if it works, it could be a decent compromise.

Okay, I'm confused on exactly how I'm going to go about doing that tzuk.

On the side note, Altiris SVS also has problems with GameGuard It appears GameGuard is known to give errors if it's not in a Windows OS..

[SnDPhoenix]

You can try to set your some specific folder as a Full Access path, and then install the game there. This means some of the installation will happen outside the sandbox, but only in the folder you designate, and if it works, it could be a decent compromise.

Okay, I'm confused on exactly how I'm going to go about doing that tzuk.

I think what he meant by that is that, for example, lets say you install COD4 and it uses the path "C:\Program Files (x86)\Activision\Call of Duty 4 - Modern Warfare"
Well then, make that path an Full Access path, then run the COD4 installer sandboxed and install COD4. Because you have the program path opened, any files the installer installs to "C:\Program Files (x86)\Activision\Call of Duty 4 - Modern Warfare" will be installed to that path outside the sandbox, any other files the installer creates will be installed inside the sandbox though.

[Guest]

[/quote]
I think what he meant by that is that, for example, lets say you install COD4 and it uses the path "C:\Program Files (x86)\Activision\Call of Duty 4 - Modern Warfare"
Well then, make that path an Full Access path, then run the COD4 installer sandboxed and install COD4. Because you have the program path opened, any files the installer installs to "C:\Program Files (x86)\Activision\Call of Duty 4 - Modern Warfare" will be installed to that path outside the sandbox, any other files the installer creates will be installed inside the sandbox though.[/quote]

Thanks for the rich explanation. I will try and see if this works now. Also, I assume this would also mean registry keys would be created in the sandbox?

[Guest]

I didn't work. I assume it had to do with the registry being sandboxied and programs not. However, once I ran the program unsandboxed it worked fine in addition to my registry being updated in return, go figure.

Anyways, now just move the folder I choose for installation to another drive instead. I'm okay with the new registry keys on my system, I guess, since there just game keys.

[OwenBurnett]

SVS is _NOT_ a security tool and never was.
in fact even stuff like the Adobe Acrobat pro installer managed in my case to put some files related to the licensing service into the real PC while the rest was as it should be in a layer.
It allows drivers to install and other dangerus things.

SVS is a tool purly for apps you already trust,
but want to keep your OS clean or have multiple versions, or so.

unfortunatly SVS and sandboxie does not work together :'(